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Post by cypheroftyr on Nov 4, 2014 13:38:39 GMT
So representation is important, and we know that. But let's talk about why tropes must end in games. For example Jacob's arc if you romance a F!Shepard in ME2 and ME3. How he has the missing father trope, then transitions into a black dude can't be faithful and forgets about his LI trope in ME3.
Thoughts?
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Post by Berserk X #33 on Nov 4, 2014 23:14:54 GMT
Even tough I haven't played Mass Effect, I can see this trope a lot on other games.
I was discussing the Anita video on Women as Background Decoration the other day, when someone tried to say that it's not a problem to be able to kill strippers when you can kill everyone on the level.
I explained that, on a game design standpoint, the strippers are on the level can't fight back, while most if not all of the male NPCs on the level are able to freely fight back.
This is a thing that repeats through most of the game, as female NPCs are all unable to fight back anyway.
It's something that even though the developers don't pay attention, makes a whole lot of difference on the long run.
Also, there's the whole Call of Huares the Cartel thing of there being only a single level in the game where you recieve achievments for killing everyone on the level. The problem is: The level is in the 'getto' and it's the only level in the game where the only kinds of enemies are black. No variation, the only level where every enemy is a black man, is the only level where you're awarded for killing everyone.
ExtraCretiz made a great video about it, and it even points out how certain tropes lead to propaganda and endoctrination of people.
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.0.
New Member
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Post by .0. on Nov 5, 2014 1:43:53 GMT
Jacob's storyline is so disturbing to me. It's just a mess—racist, yes, and lazy. It shows deeply internalized and accepted racist beliefs about black men and black families.
I don't think tropes need to end, per se. A trope can be a tool, even an enhancement to a story. They're part of how we tell stories and communicate, simply excising them isn't enough. They have to be acknowledged and resisted. People at every stage of making games need to be aware of tropes and they need to be careful not to default to them accidentally.
Understanding tropes, problematizing them, making them visible, mocking them, inverting them—there are many ways in which tropes can be used or deliberately resisted in order to help cast light on the norms and beliefs that have caused those patterns to become tropes. Doing that changes the expected narrative, challenges what people have accepted as the truth.
I hope that makes sense.
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Post by bellpei on Nov 8, 2014 10:24:34 GMT
I definitely want to say that tropes don't need to end.
Let's define trope first though. A trope, by my understanding, is any commonly used idea in a medium. It can range from things like stock characters (the jerky jock or the wise old woman) to plot lines (The hero's journey or saving the bankrupt community center) or even broad monents (the big reveal or the first kiss). By this definition tropes can't really end because using an idea more than once is inevitable.
Tropes must be used with care. They don't always need to be resisted but creators and audience members need to be aware of them. I'm writing this in the middle of a fight with insomnia so I'm struggling to find the words. A trope is neither good or evil. It's all in how you use it. After all, there are some tropes I'd love to see more of! Warrior Princesses come to mind and there are tons of plots video games haven't really touched yet.
Mass Effect is a tough nut to crack. It does so many things well but that makes the mistakes they made stick out like a sore thumb. I really had a hard time cinnecting with Miranda. On the one hand she's a competent person struggling to be vulnerable. On the orher hand I spent a lot of time talking to her butt.
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Post by AllyKat87 on Nov 8, 2014 21:41:19 GMT
I think that the toxic/harmful tropes should definitely die off... However there are tropes that can be very useful when you work against them or turn them on their heads. For instance, when I played Gone Home, I knew nothing of the story. While I played, I was unconsciously making judgements and building expectations of what the game was going to be and how it would end. I built these expectations from tropes that appeared in games and other media in the past. Because of this, I had a pretty incredible experience. Also being set in the mid 1990's gave me such a nostalgia high it made me love it even more... lol.
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